An Exclusive Conversation with SAGENEL

SAGENEL (Nkechi Emmanuel-Layode) is a counselor, author, community builder, entrepreneur and technology creator whose work sits at the intersection of people, purpose, leadership and systems. Over the years, she has built communities, written books, worked with individuals and families, and developed technology solutions around problems she has encountered through her professional work.

She is the founder of WONDIVA Global Community and the creator of The Counselor’s Companion, a technology platform designed around the operational and professional needs of counselors, coaches and other practitioners. Her journey reflects a consistent interest in seeing possibilities, building systems and creating structures that can outlive the individual who started them.

For this conversation, Africa Tech Frontiers explores the experiences, convictions and ideas behind her work—from her earliest entrepreneurial journey and the building of WONDIVA to her approach to leadership, women’s empowerment and her move into technology.

1. Your journey has taken you through counseling, publishing, community building, media, leadership and entrepreneurship. When you look across all these chapters, what has been the thread that has remained constant, even as the work itself has changed?

SAGENEL: The thread that has remained consistent is VISION, PURPOSE & PEOPLE, ETERNITY.

I started my journey into building Visionary expressions right from 2014 after I acquired a skill and was encouraged to put it into practice by starting something profitable with it. It is interesting because back then, I hesitated until a friend of mine encouraged me to just try. What was the worst that was going to happen anyway? So I went for it. I can never forget, March 24th, 2014… I sent out that BBM UPDATE/Broadcast that I was “Open for Business,” and the rest they say is history.

The skills I learnt back then were Cocktails and Detailed Event Planning and Management. So I wanted to start an Event and Cocktail Business and I was hesitant. I eventually went past that phase and started to learn a whole lot!!!

Looking back now, I understand that God used that journey of starting The Events and Cocktails journey to build ahead of what was coming for my work with Women. It is interesting because, back then, when I would work with my ushers who were mostly female, I was always interested in how they were doing personally and just cared for them beyond the service they were rendering.

The Event platform was purposely integrated into my path as a preparation for what was coming. Also, I can’t tell you how many people from the previous vision followed me into the new Vision that is WONDIVA. A couple of people from AMARPRAZE EVENTS and COCKTAILS (I still have my business cards, let me know if you want a snapshot of it) transitioned into WONDIVA with me. It is so amazing how God works when you are in line with His purpose.

Also, when it was finally time to transition out of Amarpraze Events and Cocktails to face WONDIVA and the newer visions around 2017/2018, some of the stuff that we used to do in the business back then, like skill trainings, was now transferred into WONDIVA, so we created an arm, which we still have, called THE WONDIVA SKILL SCHOOL.

So I took the expertise and experience I had taken from running AMARPRAZE NATION (that is what the skill school arm of the business was called then) to WONDIVA SKILL SCHOOL.

So when you use the word “thread” in asking me this question, I would say you are in the Spirit, because you used the right word for me! Every single thing that God has helped me to build has been tied to each other, one vision has prepared me for the next and the various expressions help me see a broader way of building people, serving people and expanding my potential in line with my purpose while I am on it.

It has been a meaningful journey because it has been one where I have been deeply focused on eternity, walking in the best way by God’s Spirit in alignment with God and receiving ideas from the throne room regarding what the NEXT looks like every step of the way, because I do my work with a consciousness that I won’t live on earth forever (because it is the tough truth many don’t like to factor into their daily decisions), and when I am not here anymore, I would give a detailed account of what I did, didn’t do, etc.

It is my utmost desire and pivotal priority that all of these works, whether applauded by men or not, whether understood by men or not, give glory to God ultimately. This is the most important reason for my existence and the foundation upon which my work operates.

2. You began building WONDIVA at a time when you could not have known what it would eventually become. What did you see in women, and perhaps in yourself, that made you believe this was something worth building?

SAGENEL: I saw POSSIBILITIES & POTENTIALS… These two things I just mentioned are not “mere words” to me or for me, they are things that women continue to testify to over and over again about, that I helped them to discover their potentials and did not just stop there, I drew the possibilities out from them.

Some of the people that have been around me and served the vision have discovered things about themselves that they didn’t even know existed.

Some created their first designs working with me,

Built their first app,

Created their first magazine,

Led prayers,

Led a teaching,

Led their first show on radio (via THE GIRLVERSATION SHOW),

Led their first team,

Managed their first projects,

Managed their first social media account,

Written their first book, etc….

With women, there are usually barriers, limiting beliefs and even real constraints that make them think they truly can’t, and I am very “ANTI-CAN’T”. There is nothing you cannot do, that cannot be achieved as long as the seed has been deposited in you.

I was speaking a few years back with a lady who thought that because she had given birth to a child, she couldn’t be a mechanic. She loved mechanical works because she watched her dad doing it, growing up. Anyways, I encouraged her the best I could. She wasn’t a member of our community, so I am not sure if the seed of that encouragement is/has been nurtured… and that is exactly why the community was even built.

I realized that, because of my passion, I can implant the seed of “seeing possibilities” in 100 women per day, at different spaces and places, but where would that seed be “nurtured”? Because it is not just about sharing the seeds of God-breathed possibilities, it is about helping to nurture and water it, and that is how our community started and that is the relevance of the community and our core purpose for why we invite “women-in”.

We know that there are lots of women “many-things” everywhere we turn in these times. WONDIVA is exceptional because that community is the nurturing and watering ground towards the harvest of each woman’s life and after a woman has started to receive that harvest, if they feel the community has done the work in her life towards her season, she is free to exit or/and continue to serve in a leadership capacity to other women who were once where they used to be.

3. A lot of your work has been about helping women understand who they are before they make major decisions about relationships, family, career and purpose. Where did that conviction come from? Was there something you experienced or observed that fundamentally changed the way you understood womanhood?

SAGENEL: First of all, it is a calling, a calling by God to partner with Him, in sharing this burden in His heart and making sure that His will is done on earth as it is in Heaven.

Secondly, while preparing for this call ahead of starting in 2016, even though I have known since 2010… I started to observe a pattern amongst women, especially Nigerian and African women, since those are the people around me because I live in Nigeria, that a lot of the derailment and deep regret they hold was/is as a result of certain wrong decisions they had taken, whether knowingly or unknowingly.

It could be as a result of a poor upbringing with lack of quality and right-thinking adults/parents/guardians to guide them through the growing-up phase or as a result of the wrong friendships, environment, etc.

So you see Women with potentials in abusive marriages, with derailed purposes, with disappointments aura following them wherever they go and even those whose own had turned into bitterness, jealousy, etc.

While I applaud agencies and individuals who are committed to helping with the after-effects (and we even used to do that at a particular season with single mothers), my calling stirs me towards the root cause and how to solve it from the root cause!

This is why I am big on Identity, Self-Concept, Self-awareness, Purpose, Understanding your giftings, callings and contributions to the world, seeing possibilities and stepping into it, God’s way, etc.

You can’t be grounded and busy with these things and still be making wrong decisions. I realize that the lack of understanding of these things is why people go into things like prostitution, adultery, the wrong marriages, struggling for married men, disappointments from not achieving a dream they really desire to, jealousy, envy, etc. (By the way, for any woman dealing with jealousy or envy, I have the antidote to that through my book—“Enjoying Her”.)

The root cause of what makes women miserable, lost and broken is what we have been dedicating to solving in the last 10 years and we have so many testimonials from changed lives.

By the way, understanding “the root cause” is what also got me into counseling. “I am a root-cause girl” and solving things from the depth is how I am designed and wired.

4. You have spent years listening to women tell you the things they may never say publicly—their fears, disappointments, relationship struggles, questions about identity and the pressure to appear as though they have everything figured out. What have those private conversations taught you about the realities of being a woman today?

SAGENEL: It has taught me that many women are good at Make-Up and Masking, literally, and that we need to truly lean into listening and watching out for each other, beyond just admiring and watching each other.

Admiration is beautiful and it is fantastic to be admired and to admire people, however my counseling conversations have taught me that we women have more things in common relating to who we can become and what God has put on our inside more than we realize.

So, watching and being jealous about another woman is a waste of your time, energy and emotions, because you have your own “beautiful” on the inside of you and if only you would dedicate time to discover and “build your beautiful” you would do less “masking and making-up” and do more Lighting each other up positively, because we are living from a place of Authenticity.

5. Your own life has required you to hold many identities at once: wife, mother, therapist, author, founder, community leader and entrepreneur. What have you had to learn about choosing what deserves your attention in each season, rather than trying to give everything equal attention all the time?

SAGENEL: I have learnt and it was especially highlighted to me after the birth of my BOY/GIRL Twins in 2025 that “PRIORITIES ARE POWERED BY SEASONS”.

Different seasons require different level of attention. For instance at the time of holding this interview, we are preparing for THE RETREAT and 10th YEAR ANNIVERSARY DINNER of THE WONDIVA GLOBAL COMMUNITY. This is my most important focus alongside the on-going WONDIVA LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE (Cohort 3) currently on-going. Infact, these are the top 3 group chats I have pinned to the top of my WhatsApp.

Do I have other on-going projects, counseling sessions, technological upgrades and serving, teaching, consultancy, Book Launch, and many more going on alongside The 10th Year Anniversary? Ofcourse, yes… But my top priorities in this season are the 10th Year Anniversary and everything attached to it.

It is how Multi-Influential Women/People like us have to execute excellently at all times.

Another important thing is to keep building systems and teams in “every season” so that a season where you are not there, things can keep moving even without your “direct daily input”, because you have made your investments and inputs ahead of time for your team and the systems you put in place to carry on excellently when you may be busy with another high-priority vision.

You keep juggling it positively and possibly, because it is what you have been called to do. I understand my assignment is different, I respect it and I am lovin’ it.

As for Motherhood, Wif-ing and Family Life,

These are my HOME, where my heart is and always will be! So they are PRIORITY ONE before even the “priorities for the day” begin. They are the ‘PRIORITIES before the PRIORITY LIST’.

Just to add to this though…One secret to trying to “have it all together” is to “Design your LIFE-PLAN” (We teach that at THE WONDIVA LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE) and understand what each season may demand and how to navigate it, of course there are unforeseen circumstances, but of course planning and preparing is always better than not planning and preparing at all.

When I got married, my Husband and I agreed and listed out some of the things we wanted to build first, before expanding our home with children and we kept to that agreement and God helped us when it was time and in our case, we even welcomed 2 children at once. How can you not live in chaos if you don’t plan for a family expansion and you discovered that you are having a set of twins?

The point is…I had been building systems long before I had the Twins, such that when I was away on maternity leave, all the organizations that I lead, didn’t go on leave with me, because of the systems and teams already on ground.

This also happened because I discovered God and His purpose for my life early and in good time and this is why I am dedicated to helping others do so…Early God and Purpose Discovery + a Life Design/Plan (factoring in unforeseen circumstances too) is a good way to build life systems that has the capacity to hold multiple dimensions and expressions of you.

6. There is a particular kind of resilience required to keep building when the outcome is not guaranteed. Looking back, what has been a defining moment of disappointment or uncertainty in your journey, and how did it change the way you lead today?

SAGENEL: I mean the biggest uncertainty and disappointment have been “people-based” or “people-centric”.

It’s been people who say what they don’t mean and don’t mean what they say. As a visionary, because you work with people and have to, to get the work done, you can spiral into a place of deep disappointment, hurt, and even bitterness if care is not taken.

Any defining moments have been centered around people not showing up when you need them the most, not showing loyalty, even the vow that “they are loyal,” or giving half-hearted attention to the service and volunteering because they don’t just “see it” the way “God sees it and the way God has shown you”.

So my turning point was putting my Trust in God and banking on Him to touch and lead the people, understanding that “You inspire me ma” isn’t enough to sustain loyalty and diligence. I started with that first, moving my 200% full dependency to GOD and not being fascinated by Men’s mere words.

Then also building systems, documentation and accountability systems for if a person needs to leave… planning and mapping out plans A, B, C at every given point in time and ultimately expanding my perspective on people without reducing the quality and excellence of the vision required.

I now understand that no one is perfect and I work from a place of abundant grace without reducing the level of leadership, stewardship and accountability a person should hold.

7. You have built communities and platforms around women, but you have also spent years building yourself. What does leadership look like for you now that you understand that influence is not simply about how many people are following you, but about what your work leaves behind in them?

SAGENEL: Leadership for me looks like:

• Building exemplary structures behind the scene, doing the hard deep, tough work that no one likes, so that there is a foundation and a capacity expansion to help that work reach and sustain change the lives of the women/men that would keep coming for real change (not just visitors and admirers).
• Building Blueprints that are solid and that other people can glean and learn from.
• Building people and letting them go freely and in-love when they say it is time to go, without grievances and drama, knowing that God helped you to be used in their life and it is not by your doing.
• Saying the truth, living and leaving a legacy of truth regardless of how uncomfortable or unhappy people are, because I am here to transform their lives (and some discomfort will be involved), not make them “happy”.
• Loving people and seeing people from the lens of God and treating them from that perspective, not from flesh or just mere human expectations and performance.
  

8. We often talk about empowering African women, but empowerment can sometimes become another demand placed on women to achieve, perform and constantly become more. What do you think we are getting wrong about what it truly means for an African woman to flourish?

SAGENEL: What we are getting wrong is trying to use a ONE-SIZE fits template, model, example as a mirror for what “empowerment looks like for every African woman”. We rotate the same set of women, year-in-year-out across different magazines, front covers, etc…without giving room to diversity of what success and empowerment can look like across different fronts and fields.

So I am glad your media outfit exists and I hope it rectifies this, so that more women across diverse fronts can be listed as examples to help more women “see themselves in different kinds of women” in their field, industry, etc… not just narrow the perspective.

Because a Stay-at-Home Mum equipping her family with nourishing food and deep Spiritual values is as important as A CEO-MUM leading businesses across Africa.

Secondly,

Understanding the designs of different women before matching them to specific skill sets.

The days of applauding ourselves because a 100 women learnt make-up should be behind us.

This is 2026 (as at the time of doing this interview) there are assessments everywhere and thousands of therapists and counselors like me that can come up with creative customized assessments for specific people in specific places.

We have got to start gathering intelligence that helps us in understanding “how each woman is designed and wired” and then skill them up with relevant skills that are in tune with their wiring, so that they can actually keep using these skills, years later beyond the now.

Thirdly,

We need to seriously move empowerment from just “skill, profit, career and business empowerment” to CHARACTER EMPOWERMENT as top priority blended in our empowerment programmes.

Too many people in this day and age that have the “cash money” are character deficient and such people shouldn’t be spotlighted and applauded.

We have got to start taking Character, Moral and Values Empowerment as seriously as we take the skill empowerment. Only then would we start raising whole women, not women who are nourished in VITAMIN S (SKILLS) and are deficient in VITAMIN C (Character, Values, Competence and even Capacity).

This is what it means for an African Woman to flourish.

9. You have now moved from using your professional expertise to building technology around it, including The Counselor’s Companion. What made you decide that a problem you had spent years experiencing needed to become a technology solution?

SAGENEL: Future-Forward thinking and intelligence by The Holy-Spirit helped me see ahead, understood what was coming and how to prepare and position for it, by building the technology to accommodate it.

Like I shared earlier, I am dedicated to seeing possibilities and The Counselor’s Companion app was a possibility I saw when most people weren’t even thinking about it or thought that it was an idea that was viable. I chose to move and in 2022 (yes as early as 2022) we launched the app!

Some of my Colleagues were just raving and excited…and that was a VERY VERY BASIC 1.0 that we put out there in year 2022.

Imagine when we now did an Upgrade, Update and Re-invention in 2025… We refurbished and renovated the app laughs and we took it from 1 – 1,000, it doesn’t even look like anything we built in the past, because of its current level of excellence and capacities…

My big take-away and lesson from The Counselor’s Companion app is, but what if we didn’t build the version 1.0 just the way I envisioned it, in its basic state, what would we have to “improve on?”

So the answer is in this original quote of mine:

“You can only improve on what you have/has been executed not on what is being dreamt/fantasized about, talked about or forever postponed due to perfection”

Most importantly, The Counselor’s Companion is not just an app or a client management software for Counselors, it is a Solid Operations back-end systemic support for every 21st Century Counselor/Coach that wants to track the health of their practice at a glance at their fingertips. This is not another “EHR” (Electronic Health Record). This is beyond that.

This is a Legacy System builder, sustainer and growth software for Counselors and Coaches looking to leave a legacy with their work beyond just “making money” and for those who are even trying to make money but don’t know how to do that or what may be hindering them, The Counselor’s Companion helps you investigate that and our weekly support emails equip you with tips that can make money possible for you, you can subscribe here:

(Subscribe here)

https://open.substack.com/pub/counselorscompanion?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=7uo2rx

It is useful for every Mental, Emotional, Physical and Psychological Health Worker who serve and cater to Humans, especially Counselors, Coaches, NGOs, Family Life Practitioners and Mental Health Worker.

We are the Piooner of this kind of software in Africa (we launched in 2022) and even beyond our interface, designs and application set-up (which anyone can copy, even though ours is unique) our BIG-WHY is to make sure that Counselors

We also have Helpnonymous (www.helpnonymous.com/) which is being improved on currently too (at the time of this interview). You can chat with Helpnonymous on TELEGRAM and we are hoping and desirous of bringing it to other social media apps that you use too as well as improve our web experience for you too beyond what you can currently interact with.

At this time though, Telegram is our latest update, so feel free to get quality help there via Telegram as we keep integrating it on other platforms.

As for THE V.GREETING APP…It is better experienced than explained, stay tuned and follow us very closely, we are coming to your app store!!!!

(Be sure to check your store if it has launched if you are reading this interview at a later date)

10. Africa Rising Stories is ultimately about people whose lives and work are contributing to a different kind of Africa. When you think about the Africa you want your children and the next generation of women to inherit, what do you believe we must begin building differently today, and what role do you want your own work to play in that future?

SAGENEL: I believe we must urgently begin to start re-building what it is that we reward and the components and factors that influence how our mindsets are shaped adults, children, families, everyone.

We need to understand that we can’t “discuss and conference-ralize” our way out of our problems.

We need make a list of our pressing problems and corporately agree on what they are. As it is now, we don’t even have a uniformed perspective on what our problems truly are. We need to start from there, create a vision, roadmap and action steps.

We must prioritize teaching, building, solidifying, exemplifying and rewarding:

Character, Competence, Capacity, Kindness, Intergrity, Grit, Resillence, Gratitude, Hardwork, Perserverance, Patience, Excellence, Staying Power, Service, Morality, Intelligence, Finishing, Contentement, etc…

Not just celebrating:

• Starting (but never staying through or finishing, we never hear the story afterwards),
• Followers (Not caring if they were bought or if they are bots),
• Money (Rarely do people care about the means anymore, “as long as you have it”),
• Being the fastest (This has a place for atlethes, but fast doesn’t always mean best),
• Status (It is never about service, it is always about self and status and “Status doesn’t build a country and a continent, service does”.)

On my own end, I am going to continue to:

• Be a person who means what she says and says what she means in public and private.
• Continue to be dilligent with all the expressions I lead from WONDIVA, to The WONDIVA LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE, The Counselor’s Companion, The SAGENEL Company, My Counseling sessions to my clients and families.
• Continue to be an example in my family and community through service, character, kindness, love and everything needed.
• Continue building systems that would help people coming behind me learn, become and be well guided on how to carry on the legacy.
• Continue to Mentor and instill truth regardless of how tough it is, to the next generation.